Maps, Ethics & AI - Inside the Just Maps Course at UMBC GIS

In this episode of UMBC Mic’d Up, we dive into the transformative experience of the Just Maps course in the GIS graduate program at UMBC. Instructor Ron Wilson and students Amy Soukup and Derald Dudley share how this course blends technical skills with real-world ethics, critical cartography, and responsible AI use. 

• Hear how Amy and Derald’s careers and perspectives were shaped by their time in class.

• Learn how Professor Wilson uses AI as a tool for empowerment, not shortcuts. 

• Discover why mapping is never neutral—and why it matters. 

If you're curious about GIS, public service, data ethics, or practical AI in education—this episode is for you. 

🔗 Learn more about the UMBC GIS program: https://umbc.edu/gis

Transcript

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Dennise Cardona  0:00  
Welcome to UMBC Mic'd Up podcast, I am your host, Dennise Cardona. Today we explore the transformative experience of the just maps course in the GIS program at UMBC through the voices of students Amy Soukup and Derald Dudley and instructor Ron Wilson. We'll uncover how mapping ethics and AI come together to shape tomorrow's geospatial professionals. Let's hear what drew our students to this unique course and how it aligned with their professional and academic goals. 

Amy Soukup  0:31  
I'm in Baltimore City right now. I am from Minnesota, but came to Baltimore via the Shriver peace worker fellowship program. So I was a Peace Corps volunteer for a while, and then wanted to pursue my master's degree. So I came to UMBC through the Shriver peace worker fellow and got my master's in economic policy analysis. I graduated 2022 and during my time in the master's program, I took one GIS class, and unfortunately, I took that at the very end of my master's program, because I think otherwise I would have at least taken a lot more classes, if not have even changed my degree, because I just absolutely love the GIS class that I took. And so that was, like I said a couple years ago, I graduated in 2020 and it's always been on my mind that I wanted to take more classes, especially at UMBC, because I had such an amazing experience there, and so I finally did it. I was like, Okay, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna get the professional certificate. I already know that I love the University and I love the professors, so that's kind of what led me to here. Just took my first class in a certificate program and starting the second class this week.

Derald Dudley  1:51  
I graduated from Towson University with a geography degree and a cartography certificate in 1996 soon after that, I was fortunate to land a job as a nautical cartographer in NOAH, NOAH's marine chart division, while there, people with computer skills were in high demand. So recognizing that, growing up with computers, I went back to school to get a master's in computer science.

So I went to hood for that and got a master's degree in computer science with a focus on Computer and Information Systems Management. After all that was done, I got a job at DOT, US Department of Transportation in 2001 where I used those degrees to create decision support tools for policy makers, those were typically web mapping applications, but sometimes data visualization, things like that. Most recently, for the past few years, I've been the transportation theme lead of the national spatial data infrastructure. That role is not so much geography or Cartography or developing decision support tools. It's more about policy implementation. I felt under qualified also kind of cornered with my geography and computer science skills. So when COVID hit, I was like, okay, now's a good time to go back to school. Got accepted into the PhD program for public policy, where I'm concentrating on public management, and may try and tweak it to they allow you to tweak the program a little bit, so public policy, perhaps with a focus on geospatial information management, is what I hope to do. If I get the get them to agree to that. But in that program, they allow students to take electives. One of them is in an introduction to GIS. But in the public, public management role, I convinced them this, like there are some other classes that would be applicable. One is geospatial information systems management, and the other one was this class just maps, a critical theory class on cartography and geography. I took the class and it was it was a great experience. It really was very happy with the knowledge that I left the class with.

Dennise Cardona  4:10  
Both Derald and Amy came in with expectations. What surprised the most was how deeply this class combined technical skill building with meaningful dialog. 

Amy Soukup  4:21  
Yeah, I would say I was really excited to take the class. I knew that I wanted to learn more about GIS. I use it a little bit in my job right now, but there's so much more that I could learn. So I went in really excited. And I think that excitement honestly continued to grow the whole time I was in class. You know, I always try to be a lifelong learner, you know, and learning all the time, but I have realized that I'm not always the best at learning by myself, so taking a actionable class in person again was something I really looked forward to, and I truly felt inspired the whole time, which that's, you know, something that was kind of surprised.

Derald Dudley  5:00  
Thing for me, I went in knowing that I would learn a lot of technical things, and I went in hoping I would be able to explore conversations and questions on more of like the ethical side of it and the theory side of things. And I really got both of those, both the technical skills and the chance to have discussions about how we were looking at the maps and what we were communicating and the ethical side of it, and it just continued to inspire me week after week. And I loved it. And I didn't expect to feel so inspired by taking a class and what a lot of people would be like, Oh, that's pretty technical stuff, but I think it was just the specific class and the discussion environment and how we all engaged with each other really impressed me the whole time. You know, as a professional geographer with years of experience, I wouldn't say it challenged my understanding of geography or cartography. I would say it updated my knowledge with geographic knowledge, but also cartographic knowledge and technology. So a lot of things have changed since I took my first photography class,

Derald Dudley  6:04  
which was on a drafting table with vellum and pen and ink, and this class allowed me to be introduced to some of the new tools that they're using, including scripting tools like R QGIS. I hadn't used a lot of QGIS this class allowed me to get into it and better understand that. 

Dennise Cardona  6:21  
Ron Wilson's passion for teaching left a lasting impression on his students. Let's hear what makes his approach stand out. 

Amy Soukup  6:29  
Yeah, I would say, first of all, he was an incredible, absolutely incredible instructor, so passionate about the field and his experience, and so open and passionate about us learning as well. So that, first of all, just made such a big impact to know that he cared about what we were learning, and was always really open and engaged for any discussions or questions that we might have. I would say there was like a combination of approaches used. You know, we would always have articles to read, some on the technical side, some on more of like an ethical reflection side, to discuss a little bit in class. And then with more of the technical skills that we learned, he would always demonstrate them and walk through them. And then we'd have in class work times that we could also, you know, replicate what he did or find different ways to do it. And then through that hands on work, he would be there to answer questions, and we had classmates near us that we could we kind of would informally break off into groups and work alongside with each other. He was very I learned very quickly that he loves calling on people in classes. He wants it to be a discussion. So I learned like, Okay, if I if I think I have a good answer for this, I have to jump on it, because otherwise he's going to put our names in, you know, a system and basically draw random names to call on them, which was effective, because then, you know, we were more eager to actually talk when we did have an opinion about something. I think it was a very mixed bag approach that fit well with everyone's different learning styles, because it's a bunch of adults in a class, and all of us are at very different stages in life. And I think that the way that he approaches it in general, being so open and so excited about it, and like wanting us to think about it in the context of our own personal goals, and, you know, work situations or what our research is going to be, that it made it very accessible for everyone. 

Speaker 1  8:25  
Professor

Derald Dudley  8:25  
Professor Ron Wilson, he's great, does a great job with sharing his knowledge and his experience. Really emphasizes a practical application of critical cartography. Spent a lot of time on how to select source data. How to critically, critically look at source data. It doesn't really fit your purpose. Also, how do we clean the data? How do you get it ready for analysis, and then, once you have the analysis, how do you produce a map that's conveys information effectively, but is also pleasing to look at, because that's one of the things I really like about cartography, is that melding of art and science is what really attracted me to geography. So being able to use scientific methods to learn things, to create knowledge, but also being able to show that knowledge, that information, in a way that's quite artistic. You know, if it's done right. Ron did a great job of not only the technical side, but also the graphic excellence side. Talked a lot about the ink to data ratio, which is, in my mind, that simplified that as to, you know, sometimes less is more. You don't need a lot of stuff on a map to make it attractive or easy to consume using as little ink as possible to convey the data and information that you want to relay to a decision maker. 

Derald Dudley  9:52  
One

Dennise Cardona  9:52  
One of the most forward looking elements of this course is the ethical and practical use of AI. 

Ron Wilson  9:58  
 That I fully embrace it and I encourage my students to fully embrace it. The research is showing employers, they're going to want people who know how to use it. So I'm trying to prepare them for it, trying to get them comfortable in using it, because they're nervous about using it, they're unsure of how to use it. Anyone they do, they're less familiar with how to assess it, and they're definitely confused about how to mix it with what the AI puts out versus the their own knowledge. So what I do in just maps and all my other classes really is to guide them and provide them examples and rubrics for blending the two together. So I've had a few students in the past, and I've known other students doing these, other these, using these genide before, is they often will just kind of put out the output, and they'll guide it with prompts, but they really just let the output stand and that's that output is general, and it kind of does answer the question. You can't really evaluate whether they're learning anything from it or not. So I establish criteria that they must do to blend that AI, to make it very connective and very concrete to what they are learning in the classroom. So they have to do four things to make their assignment reviewable, if you will, for assessment of their knowledge. So they have to take whatever generative AI output do they do, and they have to connect it to the objective of the assignment. And then the second part is with the subject. So if we're analyzing race and ethnicity in New York or foreclosures and crime in Charlotte Mecklenburg, they have to connect that subject matter to what the generative AI has put out about the method or the analysis of the data processing doing so that shows that they're starting to interweave the larger concepts of the assignment with the generative AI output. And then the third thing is, is that they have to connect it to the data. So I will they will have to say, Oh, well, creating location requires taking this crime type and connecting it to the overall crime with the region's crime level in Charlotte Mecklenburg. So that connects to the last thing is they have to put it in the context of the geographic area that we are covering, so that it shows a clear connection with Oh, the data being used here is in this geography, and this geography is representative of a certain configuration based on the social, demographic and economic structure of The of the area. So all four of them, all four of those things, really requires them to be specific about what they've learned with what they're using and what they're doing with the general generative AI output. The generative AI will never, ever give them the answers to the assignment that is needed to demonstrate their understanding, I try to remind them to think about it as a consultant or a colleague, where they're just interacting with sort of reshape their own understanding of the material. 

Amy Soukup  13:13  
I read in the description before I started the class that, oh, we're going to talk about using generative AI, but It was a major theme the whole time, and it really, we had a lot of discussions around it. It is everywhere, and having the opportunity to learn how to properly use it, use it well, and it is very helpful. Like when you when I was stuck on a code and I'm just like asking, AI like, Hey, this is what I'm trying to do with this. This doesn't work because of this. What can I do? And even if it can't say, you know, this is exactly what you need, and it's a result, you know, sometimes it doesn't work like that, but it helps learning how to then go off of what it says, you know, to be like, Oh, okay, well, it mentioned this, and I had thought of that. So maybe if I just change my approach, I would say I don't think you can have, you know, these great deep

conversations or discussions with AI in a way that you can with, you know, classmates or professors. But it is kind of feeling like there's someone next to you being like, Oh, hey, just this is where the error is. It's just right here. 

Derald Dudley  14:20  
to

Derald Dudley  14:21  
I'm going to tell you a little story before we get started on that. I have two kids in high school, and the teachers at the high school are unwilling to people let kids do work out of class, because they're afraid that kids will use AI to answer the questions, right? So it seems like a losing strategy to me, because AI is here to stay. It's not going anywhere. Instead of trying to push it away, why are they not embracing the AI and using it as a teaching, teaching tool to enhance learning, but also using AI to teach people how to use it properly, and well, that approach is what Ron does? You know? He.

He introduces AI. This is a tool we used to kind of get us started in certain areas. It's really good for these aspects, definitely teaching that we have to be critical of the information that it returns using corroborating information along with it, so not using it as the only source of information. But, you know, one of many sources. But you know, he taught us how to use it to better understand local conditions, right? We don't, as a cartographer in DC, I don't have a lot of local knowledge or expertise about Detroit or Washington or, I mean, not Washington, but New York or something like that. Hey, what's this? The economic status of this neighborhood?

What's new crime rates and stuff like that, so using AI to query about other areas and get a better understanding kind of what's going on. But yeah, it was great. I really enjoyed his approach, and thought this is the way you teach AI. This is how you use AI in today's world. So kudos to Ron on that one.

Dennise Cardona  16:02  
As Ron puts it, AI is a consultant, not a crutch, and his students are learning to use it with responsibility and intention. Moving on to the next topic that we discussed, mapping is never neutral. The ethical lens of this class shaped how students see data, representation and responsibility. 

Amy Soukup  16:22  
Maps can, you know, inform a lot of decisions that really impact a lot of people. And, you know, it's easy to kind of try to remove yourself from that and be like, Oh, I just, you know, I just use the data well. Data itself is incredibly subjective, so you can't just say, Oh, this data is here, therefore I can use it when you don't know where the data is from, how it was used. Data is available because people have gathered it for some reason. And if you aren't aware of the reason that your data was gathered, you might not be aware of the data that's missing, almost or like, what is there and what isn't there. So being very conscious of the type of data you're using, understanding why someone got this data, and can't the original, like, desire for the data negatively impact the data itself, and how can we, you know, understand that and somewhat incorporate that into the maps. So that was really interesting, because I've always kind of been like, oh, numbers are numbers. You know, data is like, it's data. You trust it.

And that's, you know, not entirely true. You need to have that lens of like, okay, well, let's really talk about this. What is the, you know, ramifications of using data that was originally used in a really negative way. And how can we, you know, work through that? And how can we also, on the other end, make maps that communicate the evidence and the data in the best way possible? And that's, you know, you don't really know what the best way possible is in some way. One thing we talk a lot about is, if we're looking at neighborhoods somewhere, you know, what are neighborhood boundaries? Like, like, do I as a resident neighborhood, see the same neighborhood boundaries that, you know, the census sees, and even something like that, where you're like, well, maybe we don't just look at the neighborhood level when you have these like spilling effects that are going to cross these neighborhood lines. And it's, you know, unfortunately, there's no cut and dry black and white, you know, do this and you're ethically good. But it's having those continued discussions and having people where you can bring it up and say, like, Hey, I was thinking about this. And, you know, see where the discussion leads from there. 

Derald Dudley  18:39  
We're dealing with socio economic data, race, things like that, income, which are, you know, sensitive subjects and how, how do we talk to each other about that? As a middle aged white guy, you know, I'm, I probably have a lot more privilege than a lot of people do, and recognizing that and taking that approach to the people in the class, but also the people I work with, is very important that I understand my origin and my context. Bringing that to the table and looking for relevant knowledge from other people is very helpful. 

Dennise Cardona  19:16  
Beyond theory and tech, students walk away empowered with tools to make an impact in real world scenarios. 

Amy Soukup  19:24  
Knowing where, where your data came from, and what the data definitions are, very, very important. But you have to have the data, and you also have to think about the data. We learned a lot about getting the data from the census websites. So how you are actually like the technical ways of going into these this website and sorting through it, because there's so much information and you want you know a specific data set answering a specific question in a specific area, and we learned not just how to kind of pull that out, but how to weed it down in.

Coding too. So how can we, like, figure out what this data is saying, what these columns are, what the rows are, and then get rid of the things that we know we don't need, and then using that data further to Okay, now we're going to change the formats of the columns and what type of, you know, data type it is, so that it can import easily into another function, and thing like that, things like that. 

Derald Dudley  20:23  
This course taught me how to create that that knowledge, share that information effectively, and to give decision makers the relevant knowledge they need to make an informed decision, and hopefully improve the probabilities of successful outcomes. The biggest thing was it gave me the language that I needed to describe maps and why a map was bad, or why a map was good. Having a geography degree and a cartography certificate, I kind of knew

from, you know, the old methodologies, what a good map was, the aspects of good design, but I didn't really have a precise language on how to describe that. And Ron taught me, you know, how to talk about different aspects of the map and why it was working or why it wasn't working. So now, when I go to somebody and request a map, say, you know, I want to, this is the information I want to show. This is a methodology I want to use, and this is how I want it displayed. And if they bring back a map that is less than pleasing, I can point to it and say, Well, I want you to change this. Because, you know, this is, this is not the best practice and graphic excellence you need to, you know, kind of tone that down or highlight this a bit more. So that was really, really good. 

Dennise Cardona  21:50  
What would Gerald and Amy say to someone considering the GIS program? Well, let's wrap up with their words of encouragement and reflection. 

Amy Soukup  21:59  
I would absolutely say, go for it. You know, if you have questions and concerns, reach out to the professors. Reach out to the program directors and assistant directors. You know, I've found that even professors that I don't have in this department have been more than willing to talk and share their experience and give advice. I have loved my time at UMBC, and I think it's, you know, I'm still back taking classes, and I think that really says something. I think more people should take classes in GIS, you know, I don't think I'd ever really heard about it before I got my master's degree. And it can be used in so many ways, and it can be so helpful, and it's such a good skill to have both the, you know, the classes that I took as a grad student, the class that I'm taking now in the certificate program, they have been just incredible opportunities to learn a skill in a very supportive environment, and I cannot recommend them enough. You have concerns about things, reach out to the program. Reach out, ask your questions. You'll get amazing support. But also, if you're even slightly like, Oh, I'm interested in this, or, Oh, maybe that's beneficial, it will be like it you can use it in so many different ways. 

Derald Dudley  23:14  
Yeah, if I had to describe it in one word, empowering or maybe enlightening, if I had to sum it up in a phrase or a thought, the class made me better. It improved my skills. Like I'm better at creating value for citizens now than I was before the class started. So I'm a better public servant than I was before. 

Dennise Cardona  23:34  
Thanks for tuning into this episode of UMBC Mic'd Up podcast. If you're curious about the UMBC GIS program or the just maps course. Check the description for links to learn more until next time. Keep exploring!